mac thanks, grreat Idea... my layout is similar to hammers, so i don't believe i have the space to add the larger hatches and fit the batteries in there. I'll have to go do some measurin . Hammer i notice you have them on the gunnells also. That would really help in getting to those drains. I checked the west catalogue and found a 7 x 11 or 8 1\2 x 11 3\8. Great more holes to cut!!!!