vhf antenna connector

I hooked up a vhf radio and had my nephew give me a radio check and he heard me but with alot of static (we were both at our houses 5 miles apart)but I do get the weather channels in good though
I am wondering if I might have put the connector on wrong.Can someone tell me how it gets put together,it comes with 1 teflon and 1 metal washer
THANX
 
was the boat in the water? marine electronics tech told me that the ground on the radio bonds through the motor and uses the water as a type of ground plane to transmit & recieve. i know mine seems to work better in the water than on the trailer. trees are also a factor.
 
trees are also a factor.


Trees and other obstructions are definitely a factor. VHF transmission is line of sight and even over open water 15 or 20 miles is usually about all you get, depending on antenna height.

5 miles over the land may not be bad, depending on what is in the way.
 
Most of this is a copy/paste from an article by John Schofield, with a few comments of my own (in blue) thrown in for good measure. Hope it helps a little.

VHF radio range is line of sight, so height is a very important factor in achieving maximum range. On a yacht the most suitable antenna location is, therefore, at the top of the mast. Two boats, each with a masthead antenna 60’ above sea level can theoretically communicate at about 20 miles. (since this is not practical on a V20 the distance will be less) (A transmitter at a coast station, perhaps 1000 feet above sea level, could communicate with these same boats at closer to 50 miles.

For those who wish to do the maths themselves the formula is: D1 + D2 (total distance between stations in nm) is equal to 1.23(0H1 +0H2), where H is height of the antennas in feet.

Accepting that the VHF antenna must be positioned as high as possible on the boat we can turn to other factors that will effect radio performance:
It is a simple fact that the potential performance of a marine VHF radio is limited by the quality of the antenna and its installation. A badly designed antenna fitted with undersized cable and imperfect connections will make
the performance of even the most exquisite and expensive radio unacceptable. (I underlined this sentence because it's the most important one in the article)

It is important to select the right antenna and install it in such a way that it maximises the performance of the radio to which it is attached.

Antenna performance, or
gain, is expressed in decibels – (expressed as the symbol dB).
A 9dB antenna increases the signal power eightfold, a 6dB antenna fourfold and a 3dB antenna, the best selection for masthead applications, doubles signal power.
But why choose a 3dB antenna for the masthead when you could get all that extra power from a 9dB antenna?
Well, the increased signal strength of a high gain antenna is achieved by concentrating the signal radiating from it into a narrow disc. (remember, all antennas radiate their signal from the tip of the antenna, NOT along the entire length) The signal radiates at right angles to the antenna with very little radiation upwards or downwards. When the boat heels and the antenna rocks backwards and forwards the concentrated disc-like
radiation pattern points the signal at the sky, or at the sea, instead of at the horizon. A 3dB gain antenna has a radiation pattern that looks more like a fat doughnut than a disc, with a significant portion of the signal radiating upwards and downwards. No matter how much the boat heels, such an antenna will still have some portion of its signal pointing at the horizon and, because VHF transmissions are line-of-sight, this is vital to performance. Hence the universally accepted use of a 3dB gain antenna for boating applications.

Another measure of antenna performance is the SWR – Standing Wave Ratio. (You may see this referred to as VSWR, Voltage Standing Wave Ratio, but it is the same thing). (Very important point, since your SWR's will effect your transmission range immensely)

This is, in very simple terms, a measure of the amount of the transmission power that is lost in the antenna system. If the antenna system were perfect and the entire signal power leaving the radio was transmitted by the antenna (and its cables and connections) the SWR would be 1:1. Sadly this is not achievable, but getting as close as possible is a worthy aim. (It is the goal of every good installation ) A SWR of 2.0:1 over
the whole system represents a ½ dB loss in signal strength and is barely acceptable. To achieve or, preferably, better this performance the antenna itself should have the best possible SWR. A top quality antenna such as the Metz Manta-6 has a SWR of less than 1.2:1. Others will have a SWR of 1.5:1 or higher. (This is a masthead antenna and you can ignore it's recommendation here, but the stated goal of using a top quality antenna with the lowest SWR is correct.)

Other criteria for selecting a marine antenna, particularly one for masthead mounting, would be:

•​
Resistance to UV degradation. Clearly all stainless steel construction wins hands down. (But in our applications it's impractable due to the closeness of the antenna to people. Whip antennas are called that for a reason. Use a fiberglass or carbon fiber encased antenna)

•​
Resistance to bird strikes. Again, a stainless steel whip is less vulnerable than a rigid plastic one.(Debateable)
Ability to be removed when the mast is taken down. This is when the antenna is particularly vulnerable and those with factory crimped connections cannot be removed without removing all the cable with
them. The connection at the antenna should be an SO239 socket which takes the standard PL259 connector.

•​
Low weight.

•​
Sturdy mounting bracket.

Once the antenna has been selected we can turn to the other components of the antenna system; the cable and connectors.
Cable:
Marine VHF applications require 50 ohm coax. TV cable is 75 ohm and is not suitable. (Repeat after me, TV cable is 75 ohm and IS NOT suitable)
Suitable cables include RG-58 (smallest), RG-8X, RG-8U and RG213. RG-213 is the same size as RG-8U but with completely waterproof and ultra-violet resistant insulation. RG-213 is more difficult to work with when it
comes to making connections and is very expensive, so probably best left to superyachts. RG58 is only suitable for interconnections between equipment and for very short runs. (But since all we need is a very short run from the normal antenna mounting area on the side of the boat to the radio, RG-58 is perfect for our applications. Ignore the rest unless you want to be working with 1/2" thick cable)
Coax must have copper braid, preferably tinned copper braid. (That is, the metal webbing just under the outside insulation and surrounding the center insulating core) Braid is described by percentage figures – 98% is the best, 96% is good. It is important that the dielectric, the insulation surrounding the center core of the cable, is solid polyethylene. Foam core dielectrics can suck moisture into the cable via the connections and cause the core and braid to corrode. A good UV resistant cover is essential for longevity.

One of the biggest causes of failure in an antenna system is faulty connections. These allow water into the coaxial cable causing corrosion of the braid and center conductor. So, high quality connectors are required.
The cable terminal is the PL-259 plug. This plug fits RG8U cable and, with suitable adaptors, RG8X and RG58. The PL259 connector mates with an SO-239 socket fitted to the antenna, (unless the antenna comes with the cable already connected internally to it) and to the back or the radio.

Connections should be (MUST BE) soldered. Many manufacturers use pressure crimped connections but these are subject to corrosion and need special tools to create the connection. (If you look at the PL-259 connector, you'll notice that there are (usually) three holes drilled into the sides of the connector, spaced evenly around the barrel of the connector. When you peel back the braid, you should twist it into strands and feed it through these holes, then apply solder to the braid and connector at the holes, filling them with solder and making a solid permanent connection of the cable braid to the connector, ensuring that all holes are completely sealed with solder to help prevent water from getting into the holes. This is very important as most of your line loss will occur at the connectors. The better the mechanical joint, the less the signal loss and the lower your SWR's) There are a ton of different ways to actually attach the 259 to the cable. Do a search on the internet and you'll find several hundred, all claiming to be the best way. My advice is that you'll never get in trouble if you use the Amphenol method. Oh, and use silver plated connectors. If you use the nickel plated ones you'll have to file or sand off the plating before you can solder the wire to them. And try to find ones that say "Made in the USA". :beer:

 
Most VHF problems can be traced to the antenna connector. A lot of people talk down about the crimp on connectors, but a well done crimp on will out perform a poorly soldered connector everytime.

Can't really help you with the spacer / washer problem as there are a couple cable sizes that come into play, as well as different brands of connectors.

I'd grab a shakespeare crimp on Pl-259 connector and go from there. They are very easy to install, almost fool proof.

Good luck,
 
Most VHF problems can be traced to the antenna connector. A lot of people talk down about the crimp on connectors, but a well done crimp on will out perform a poorly soldered connector everytime.

Can't really help you with the spacer / washer problem as there are a couple cable sizes that come into play, as well as different brands of connectors.

I'd grab a shakespeare crimp on Pl-259 connector and go from there. They are very easy to install, almost fool proof.

Good luck,

Airslot, I respectfully have to disagree with you on this one. Now, before anything else, I have to admit that the last time I used a crimp on connector was during the mid 70's for my base and mobile stations with CB radio. They were nothing but trouble, and it was only after switching to soldered connectors that I was able to take accurate SWR readings on my setups. I used to shoot skip without heat, and it's only by really fine tuning your rig that you can do that. I ran a White Lightning beam antenna with a President Washington Sideband radio and made the trip to Texas and California many times. Having just said all that, I know that time has passed and I'll admit that MAYBE they might have improved the crimped on types... But since I've never used them since the 70's I really don't know. What I do know is that if you do it right, you'll never have a problem with a soldered connector. Not from corrosion, not from moisture, not from nuttin. I use Shakesphere antennas almost exclusively, because they are good quality, and readly available. If they have a crimped on connector I cut it off and put on a new one. I've never had a problem by doing it. :beer:

PS I completely agree with you on your statement that most problems can be traced to the antenna connector... either at the antenna if it has one, or at the radio. Salt air will cause havoc with just about any electrical connection, including the one to the antenna. Liquid Tape is a guys best friend in that enviorment. After you make your connections, brush on a good heavy coat over them to seal everything and keep it nice and waterproof.
 
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I go thur radios like every 3 years or so, and I have always thought that these att, should be matched up like are old CB's?? I use to run a Cobra 2000 side band with all the extra channels with 250 watt boost :hide: There was not many that were talking over me!

So Destroyer do you match your marine radio?? And is it like doing a CB??
Just got a brand new one from my wife for Xmas and looks like a good one, Icom IC M422
 
I go thur radios like every 3 years or so, and I have always thought that these att, should be matched up like are old CB's?? I use to run a Cobra 2000 side band with all the extra channels with 250 watt boost :hide: There was not many that were talking over me!

So Destroyer do you match your marine radio?? And is it like doing a CB??
Just got a brand new one from my wife for Xmas and looks like a good one, Icom IC M422

I had a freq counter so I also had the extra channels. LOL Uncle Charlie used to love us. As to matching the marine radio, truthfully, no, I don't MJ. I don't know why, but I've just never gotten back into the whole business. I still have my SWR meter (Still have my base station too [and my D104 lollypop mike] for that matter.) and I'm sure I could find the necessary literature to tell me if my antenna is a 1/2 wave or 5/8 or whatever, then try and measure out the right amount of cable etc, but since I'm only going line of sight with VHF it kinda seemed like a useless exercise. Besides, ...since you can't adjust the height of a fiberglass whip (to change the wave length) the only tuning you can do is on the cable side, and if the antenna comes with the cable attached at the antenna side I'm hesitant to cut a lot off.... So I generally just leave well enough alone except for the pl259 connector.

I like the Icom radios. I know several people that have them and they seem to hold up well to the rigors of boating. Right now I'm running a Uniden Oceanus DSC that I love, but when the time comes to replace it, Icom will be on my short list. :beer:
 
Thanks!! I also gave up all the CB stuff sold all my stuff and have nothing now.
But after going thur radios in whatI think is a bit fast and the you mention the att matching it got me to wondering
 
Well, if all you really wanted to do was check your VHF SWR's there's a really neat trick you can do to use a CB SWR meter to do it. As mentioned I still have my SWR meter(s) from CB days One is a Micronta (Radio Shack) 3 dial (power/modulation/swr) unit and the other is a cheapie $5 special CB SWR meter. They really don’t work all that well on VHF but there’s a trick you can do that will net a reasonably accurate SWR reading. What you do is connect up the meter as usual, key the mike with the switch in the forward power position, then set the adjustment for full scale. Now, without touching anything, swap the coax connections so that the radio is connected to the “antenna” side of the meter, and the antenna is connected to the “transciever” side. The reading you'll then see on the meter will be very close to your real SWR's. The closer to 1:1 your SWR is, the more accurate it will be. It would be more accurate to have a real VHF/UHF SWR meter but they can cost $50-100. For a quick antenna check after an install or if you have doubts about your system the $5 CB meters work OK. :beer:
 
CB SWR meter is not accurate at marine bands frequencies 155 MHZ vs 27 MHZ for CB they usually good for up to 30 MHZ. Buy a good quality UHF/VHF coax, CB/ham HF coax has line loss at VHF frequencies, I use mil-spec silver-Teflon pl-259/n connectors on all my ham/marine radio's. High SWR conditions radios have self protection to save the final TX transistors will cut back power by over 90% . Ask a ham operator to help with a SWR meter if you do not have the correct meter, if you do not know one look here www.qrz.com/db/?cmd=1
type you zip code and a list of local hams will come up we are more than happy to help.
 
MJ .... WHY does the server log you out after you log in? I just spent the better part of an hour answering Blu_Lunch's post, only to loose it all because the server logged me out, and when I retyped my name and password to log in again it said that my post could not be processed because I was previously logged in??? What the hell does that mean??? What a complete waste of time. Now I have to retype the entire post again.
 
The server is acting funny today?? We have done all we can on are end, the slowness and stuff is on the server end.
We have complained and moved servers but this is what we can afford and have not found a good server??
Its like a cell phone you never know how it will work unless you buy and find out :cen::cen::cen:

if any one knows of a good server out there for cheap let me know!!
 
The server is acting funny today?? We have done all we can on are end, the slowness and stuff is on the server end.
We have complained and moved servers but this is what we can afford and have not found a good server??
Its like a cell phone you never know how it will work unless you buy and find out :cen::cen::cen:

if any one knows of a good server out there for cheap let me know!!

Naaa... I don't think it's the server itself.... more like a setting in the program. I know that when I'm at home at my computer I join the site and since I have it set to remember me there's no problem, I can take as long as I want and I'll still be logged in. But here at work I don't have it set to remember me, so after I log in it doesn't remember me and logs me out after a certain amount of minutes. Wierd. I apologise btw... I didn't mean it to sound like I was yelling .. it was just frustrating to use your lunch hour answering a post, only to loose it all because of some programming glitch. :head:
 
CB SWR meter is not accurate at marine bands frequencies 155 MHZ vs 27 MHZ for CB they usually good for up to 30 MHZ. Buy a good quality UHF/VHF coax, CB/ham HF coax has line loss at VHF frequencies, I use mil-spec silver-Teflon pl-259/n connectors on all my ham/marine radio's. High SWR conditions radios have self protection to save the final TX transistors will cut back power by over 90% . Ask a ham operator to help with a SWR meter if you do not have the correct meter, if you do not know one look here www.qrz.com/db/?cmd=1
type you zip code and a list of local hams will come up we are more than happy to help.

Blu, this is a much shortened reply. I lost the long version to a programming glitch, and I don't have the time to redo it all.

I agree with you and I know that a CB SWR meter is not as accurate as a VHF SWR meter for checking VHF rigs. I said as much in my previous posts. My point was that there was a cute trick that someone could use to do a quickie check of their VHF radio using a CB SWR meter. While it's not nearly as accurate as using a VHF/UHF SWR meter, it's a lot cheaper and as a spot check it works just fine. Reread the post to see how it's done, then give it a try. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well it works.

My father built his first crystal radio in 1927. He was an avid ham (W2PY) and only used code, sending and receiving at well over a hundred words a minute with the use of a bug. (Semi-automatic key) I swear that he was teaching us (his 6 kids) about radios before we could walk. I know that I soldered my first joint before I was 6.

He died on Jan 1, 2000.

A gentleman named Mike (Amateur Extra class) who lives in Scottsdale, Az picked up his call sign, so while my dad is dead, at least W2PY is still on the air. So all in all, I have a fair background in ham and CB radio and have in fact built several of my own CB beam and ground plane antennas.

I completely agree with you that silver plated connectors are the way to go, and said as much in my other post. (and please buy ones made in the USA) As to the cable, that's another story. Don't forget that most VHF antennas come with the RG58 cable already attached on the antenna side and cut to the proper length for the antenna's wave form. Also, on a V20 boat, the normal physical length of the run for the cable is less than 6' from the mounting point of the antenna to the radio. My point is that a good cable like RG8U or RG213 would be pointless to run since it's length and bulk would simple get it in the way, and unless the antenna had a SO239 connector at the bottom would not be able to be used anyways.

Thanks for including that link to local hams. I didn't have that one and it's a good thing to keep handy. :beer:
 
Man you guys justgave me a bigtime 70's flashback wit the cb's and the 1/2 wave antennas and the d 104 mike WOW!!GOOD OLD DAYS HUH??
 
Destoyer could it be something in your browser settings are different b/t work and home?

Whenever I'm typing a long response I normally open a text editor such as wordpad or notepad and copy/paste (control + c = copy and control + p = paste) into it while I am writing. That way if something happens to the browser or server when I hit "submit" I still have it. Been burned too many times with exactly what happened to you! Or you can just type it in the text editor to begin with, THEN paste it into the forum thread.
 
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