Yamaha 225 4 stroke to heavy?

B

bkurtz5001

Member
Hi all, I have been floating around for a little while and had forgotten my username and password so I am under a new name but still new to the posting side of things. You may have seen my boat when the”turbinedoctor” posted it from when we ran into each other in the bay last summer.

Here is my dilemma:
I have 1985 Fisherman20 that has the factory full transom/seadrive. It had a custom bracket made for it and it had a 200 mercury saltwater that I was so happy when it finally blew up. (not a merc fan at all!). However, I started lookin into getting a new motor when I thought well, before I spend a ton of money on a motor, I need to check out the transom and stringers. Last spring I re-did the whole outside ( Sanding, grinding out spider cracks, filling, new rub rail, new bottom paint, new outside paint etc..) Long story short I have completely redone the stingers and transom. Transom – I cut a piece of ¾ ply into three pieces(all covered in 3 coats of west) to find the curve in the transom. I thickend (403) some west and applied it to the wood and existing fiberglass skin. They where through bolted with threaded rod and 2x6 squares. Once dry, a layer of 1708 biaxial 0/90 kevlar reinf. with 3/4oz mat on back (overkill? got a good deal on 75yd x 50” roll)was applied. Once dry I removed the threaded bolts sanded a little, then glued a solid ¾ piece of ply and thru bolted as well. Once dry it received 2 layers of the cloth. Stringers are two pieces of 3/4 ply laminated together with West system and a layer of 1708 biaxial Kevlar cloth with the .75oz mat on the back. They where glued to the boat and 3 layers of the same fabric to encapsulate/tabbed to hull. I am in the process of installing the floor, redoing the console, and desiging the fish box to go in the transom. The gas tank will be moved forward along with the console and lean post and batteries will be installed inside the new console. As for the console I cut off the side rod holders and front seat to provide more room on the deck and allow me to move it forward. Yes I will post pics if someone shows me here soon.

Now for the big question now that you have the history. I have an opportunity to get a 225 4stroke Yamaha. At 583lbs im wondering if this will be over kill. It is the same weight as the 200 4 stroke. I have an incredibly strong transom as well as kneeboards which are 1.5” thick like the stringers. Considering the tank will be move forward 2.5 feet, batteries inside console and everything will be moved forward 2 feet do you think the 225 will be too heavy? Oh and the floor is .5 inch higher and scuppers have been filled in so I have a fresh pallet for the self-bail system.

Sorry for the long story but after floating for a year and reading some of the post I knew all of these questions would somehow arise.

112 man hours spent so far and $1800. But it sure beats the heck out of buying one of the new plastic boats for $40k. Plus you cant find lines like these anywhere

Thanks for the input.
 
you will be highly disapointed with a f225 on the back. i sell them and the are lethargic at best. also with out trim tabs you will be launching off nice size waves like a jet ski.

p.s. let me know if you want to give the merc away :)
 
I sold the merc. the piston went through the block. Actually got 1k for it. It was a 2001. I have trim tabs BTW. When i had the merc and that make shift livewell in the deck filled to the brim plus some spilt over in the bilge. i hardly noticed a difference in the ride.
 
if you wanted a submarine i would say you right on target!! Way to much weight and power for that boat, but hey to each his own, hey why not go with twins
 
DON'T DO IT!!!!
A member here had a 225 HONDA transom mounted and it was too heavy for his center console. The boat had VERY poor performance numbers and just never did what it should have. If going with a bracket I would look to what DUSKY has done with there 203 as it is based off of the V-20 hull(but slightly changed to work with a bracket). Also consider moving your fuel tank forward and putting your batteries in the very bow if your going with a bracketed CC. I would be looking at a 200 small block ETEC if your going new, or a 175 OPTIMAX. 4 strokes are going to be on the heavy side with your bracketed boat unless you go on the low side with HP like a 140 SUZUKI or 150 YAMAHA. I would try and keep the engine weight under 400 and use a shorter set-back bracket and make a notch in the transom to clear the engine cowling(or just not trim it up all the way).
 
This is closed transom from the factory, im not cutting a notch in it just so i can run a shorter set back. The bracket that i ran the 200 merc (416lbs) on was plenty of fine with trim tabs and the original location of my batteries in the back, console, and tank in the back. I moved the console forward mainly for fishing room in the back but will help with weight. A bracketed Center console is lighter then the original sea drive with the big v6 on it. the sea drive unit itself weighed 150lbs not including the motor. The way i look at it i have 5 more inches of set back then the sea drive and 70 more pounds with the f225. As for the Honda. a couple of years ago their 225 weighed 690 pounds. Thats insane. Hondas were, im not sure about now, notorious for thier weight. I remember 4 years ago the 130 weighed 500lbs. The 140 suzuki i looked into really hard, however i would like a higher top end then 38-40 mph. I cannot stand a mercury so the optimax is out of the picture. I sure wish i could afford an etec tho... 200HP 433lbs would be perfect. Can you explain the Dusky thing? i dont quite understand.
 
I have a sea-drive boat, but the weight isn't as far back on a sea-drive as a bracketed boat. YAMAHA has drawn ALOT of critiscism over there stated weight as they tend to be about 50 pounds heavier than the weight they say. YAMAHA states there weight with no prop, no fuel in the engine, no oil in the engine or lower unit, just the bare engine. HONDA states the weight of there engine dressed out like it would be on the boat. The 150/175 SUZUKI weighs about the same as the 150 YAMAHA coming in under 500. DUSKY currentlu builds there 203 based off of the original V-20 and they are all bracketed boats.

You need to keep in mind the actual weight on the YAMAHA 225 is around 650 dressed out plus 75 pounds or so for the bracket, so you have 725 pounds back there with that combo. The 225 2.7L SEA-DRIVE weighed in under 625 even with power steering on it, 610 for the plane jane. So that's 115 pounds more back there. The other thing is the sea-drive kept alot more weight forward vs all on the back. Also not many V-20 CC's(if any) got the V-6 sea-drive from the factory, most got the 1.6L(465 pounds) or 2.0L V-4's(540 pounds). Also the set-back on a sea-drive is 16 inches, and the standadrd set-back on a bracket is 30.

So now were talking 14 inches more set-back than origanally designed for, and add in roughly 185 pounds. Now your talking a pretty noticeable change that will seriously alter the CG. Moving your console forward was a definate plus as well as the fuel tank. Also keep in mind factory sea-drives already had the tank moved pretty far forward to begin with. Putting the batteries under the console would be mandatory, but furthur forward would help even more.

My V-20 cuddy with a 1.6L sea-drive in my opinion was stern heavy, and you don't have the cuddy weight up in the bow either. Would hate to see you go through all of this and have a boat that doesn't do what you envisioned.

Heres a link to the DUSKY 203 that is based off of the V-20.
http://www.dusky.com/boats/dus203.html
 
The dressed out weight makes a huge difference i had never considered that. And WOW that dusky looks identicle to my boat. Looks like the same mold was used. I dont even know the set back of my bracket. its shorter then 30" though. Its only a single engine bracket without a swim platform. I would like one with a swim platform but they are expensive and i doubt i could find one with the same shape as my transom. I dont want the fuel economy of another 2 stoke carbed motor. Are the yamaha hpdi 200s light enough? I heard they get just as good fuel economy as the 4 strokes?
 
here is my set up

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If I had a hard on for a 4 stroke I'd try and find a 140 johnzuki like randleman's with the right prop. I run a 225 2 stroke (475lbs. +/-)mounted to the transom and I think it's way over kill for the boat plus alot of extra weight in the stern.
 
bradford said:
If I had a hard on for a 4 stroke I'd try and find a 140 johnzuki like randleman's with the right prop. I run a 225 2 stroke (475lbs. +/-)mounted to the transom and I think it's way over kill for the boat plus alot of extra weight in the stern.
Click to expand...

+2 i had the same setup but a little heavier you have to either bury the tabs or run fast.
 
cterrebonne said:
+2 i had the same setup but a little heavier you have to either bury the tabs or run fast.
Click to expand...

I don't have any tabs so I guess i get option #2. If I wanted to carry extra weight I'd want it to be increased fuel capacity. Extra weight means extra gas consumption and poorer handling.
 
The set-up MJ had was roughly 380-390 engine and 115 pounds or a little less of bracket. Plus the cuddies had more weight forward to begin with. If your after some top end and a 4 stroke, the 175 SUZUKI will be your best bet for lower weight. A 25" shaft will weigh in around 485 or so dressed out since it's a 4 cylinder, plus it's said to be pretty torquey and swings a good sized prop. The 150/175 YAMAHA HPDI is said to be pretty bullet proof in the later years and didn't have the problems the bigger engines had. Not to certain on the 200's as I believe they had 2 different 200 HPDI's(small block and big block). A used 175 ETEC or 03+ DFI EVINRUDE can be had reasoneabl;y priced and is really good on fuel to boot. And they are pretty lightweight compared to the 4 strokes. Personally all of the newer engines would worry me if they weren't under warranty. FICHT's, OPTIMAX's, and HPDI's can be REALLY expensive to fix if something in the fuel injection system goes out. A 4 stroke is expensive in maintence compared to a 2 stroke, but they really aren't that bad if your fairly handy with a wrench.

I've chosen the old school route as I can buy ALOT of gas for what I save in maintence, repair costs, and initial investment. I've considered going with a FICHT to extend my range out to get to some of my remote spots, but I can't bring myself to do it as one repair even doing the work myself could get VERY costly.
 
Well i am definately convinced not to buy the 225. Thats what forums like this and good people are for. I looked extremely hard to find a 175 suzuki when i couldnt find hardly any used suzukis i gave that search up. The same goes with the etec. I would like a 200 etec as they are still very light. Right now, for the right price i would go with a 150/175 suzuki, 150/175 HPDI or a f150. Did they make the johnzuki bigger then 140? I thought long and hard about the 140 but its not going to give me the torque/speed i am looking for. And im not in need of a ton of top end but being able to beat a storm home or power up the backside of 10-14ft breakers on the way back home from the shoals is a must. I dont think a 140 is going to do it.

Now i guess i shall look into posting some pics up here.

MJ - I am goin to try and post a pic of my transom to see if you think yours is the same shape. Mine has a rather significant bend to it.
 
i ran alot of engines in my time. im not sure if anyone here is running a 150/175 60deg johnrude. but the low end and mid ragne not even merc can match ( i own more mercs than j/e so its an unbiased opinion) if you are not concerned with fuel efficientcy, meaning, you might use your boat 2-3 times a month which most people can do. the 3-4k in price would not be beneficial as oppose to the fuel savings you would see. now if you needed the extra range to due fuel tank limitations then the newer technology would be a must. im sure anyone on here whos ever been in some really really snotty seas will say that nothing makes it worse than an under powered boat.
 
If you prop it right you will have all the torque you want or need.

As for the curve in the transom, all V20's have it. I cut wedges out of a 4x4 PT on the corners, then covered with marine tex to seal and look like the rest of the bracket.

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That was a good idea. did you run the bolt all the way through the 4x4? That set back is alot further back then the bracket i have but i like yours better. if you dont mind me asking how much did it run you? I have a extremly strong bracket that was custom made that i think i could sell or possibly trade someone. It has a jack plate on it as well.

As for the johnrude. i am trying to keep my next motor fuel injected and rather new 03-present. All this work i dont want to put something old on the back. I would def kill for a 175-200 etec tho. Yall keep your eyes peeled!
 
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