repower question...
- Thread starter reyb
- Start date
I didn't see anything about including controls/prop, so I don't think it is. However, as cterrebone mentioned, the e-tec has a special going on...5 year warranty and free I-guage. That seems like a pretty good deal. In addition to that, a $300 rebate if you're a TBF/TFW member....I'd join just for the rebate 
spareparts
God
around here the Yamaha is king, the suzukis coming in second, the verados have become the "price motor" and most people around here wouldn't have an e-tec if you gave them one. But that is the general consinsus, based on peoples opinions, not facts. There is only one dealer here that I would trust with an e-tec and they do an excellent job with an excelent product(although expensive), there are a ton of people that will work on Yamahas around here, the suzuki dealers are the same dealers that handle Yamaha, so they are about the same. The mercury dealers generally are the carpet, vynil, and sticker boat dealers, you ususally have to wait in line behind the customers with the big payment books to get your motor looked at. For me personally, I'd look at an Opti max first, then the 175 Suzuki. Funny thing, nobody even considers Honda on a repower, one of these days Honda is going to realize how much of the market ther are letting yamaha and suzuki take and get serious about it.
Cterre, maybe the reason you're not seeing many Etecs in your shop is there aren't many in the field. Somebody has to buy them for you to work on them. If this board is an indicator, there are only a few Etec owners here. Maybe Evinrude should compare an Etec 2 stroke to a Yamaha or Mercury 2 stroke. I think the results may be a little different. I think you'll see that Yamaha has many more four stroke outboards in the field than Evinrude Etecs. Unfortunately, the Fichts put them in a hole and their market share dropped. What I see is it's a four stroke marketplace with Yamaha, Suzuki, Verado, and Honda. I do however think BRP is trying to do it right, especially with warranty issues. I think it's difficult to give a 5 yr warranty when Etecs haven't been on the market that long. In my area of Florida, 90% of the guides are running Yamahas, some with upwards of 3000 hrs on them. A friend recently removed a Yamaha 2 stroke (with no major repairs) from his boat with 4800 hrs on it. I know Evinrude makes a statement about no maintenance for 300 hrs, what about the typical guy that puts 50 hrs a year on an outboard? Six yrs w/o maintenance, could that be true? This post is just my $.02. When it comes down to it, it's a matter of good dealer and factory backup and personal preference. It is nice to keep the business in the USA, however, guess where the final money goes, Canada.
Skools Out
God
you didn't read it hello
the 150 2 and 4 stroke YAMAHA'S are close in power and fuel usage. If ya wish I have the number for the factory Yamaha guy I know at Morehead City. That's all he does is test boats all day with different motors.
cterrebonne
God
just to correct some statements seacrets. brp's intentions were never to say they were other 2-stroke slayers, their main goal was to show that 4-strokes are gods gift to the outboard world. That people do have alternatives. also we sell yam's and brp's here. we sell about 3 etec's to every yamaha. for our case dealing with our customers in the market we see more problems with yamaha's.
all this talk about how e-tecs havent been out for a while is not completely accurate. they have had the same theory out behind their injection system since the fichts came into the market.(etec has been out since 04) E-tec is just the evoloution of ficht technology. also its 3yrs or 300 hours which ever arrives first. i have owned yamaha's and omc/brp's and merc's on various boats. they all eventually will give you an issue, just make sure you have someone who is knowledgeable to fix them. like you said seacrets warranty and service. the corporate income tax might be collected in canada but it does create jobs in US.
all this talk about how e-tecs havent been out for a while is not completely accurate. they have had the same theory out behind their injection system since the fichts came into the market.(etec has been out since 04) E-tec is just the evoloution of ficht technology. also its 3yrs or 300 hours which ever arrives first. i have owned yamaha's and omc/brp's and merc's on various boats. they all eventually will give you an issue, just make sure you have someone who is knowledgeable to fix them. like you said seacrets warranty and service. the corporate income tax might be collected in canada but it does create jobs in US.
reelapeelin
God
Hey Spare!!...one of us considered Honda on a repower
spareparts
God
those are a rare sight down here, I don't hear anything bad about them, just don't see that many, heard they had a new 90? that had the best power to weight ratio for any 4 stroke, i haven't seen one.
And back to the issue, try to sell a used e-tec aournd here, vs a a used Yamaha, your phone will ring off the hook for the Yamaha, you won't get a call on the e-tec. personally like I said, opti first, then zuki 175, then yamah 150. I've run them all.
And back to the issue, try to sell a used e-tec aournd here, vs a a used Yamaha, your phone will ring off the hook for the Yamaha, you won't get a call on the e-tec. personally like I said, opti first, then zuki 175, then yamah 150. I've run them all.
randlemanboater
God
My Johnson, which is sold by BRP (a Canadian company) says "made in Japan" right on the serial number plate.
OK, so all you guys talking junk about my rice burner fess up, how many of you own a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc, car or truck?
OK, so all you guys talking junk about my rice burner fess up, how many of you own a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc, car or truck?
I just filled my tank today and my F115 Yamaha averaged 5.9 mpg (19.2 gal and 113 miles). My skiff (23') is light so I don't need alot of hp. It will still top out at 40-42 mph. To me, its a matter of economics, I get to fish alot more for the same cost as my V20 w/ a 150 HP Merc saltwater series on it. The 113 miles represents two fishing trips this week and I'm going again tomorrow. We also have an outstanding Yamaha dealer in our area with a good parts inventory and an excellent service dept.
One thing I don't think anybody mentioned, when repowering with a new motor, you might have spent double what your boat is worth. If you sell in a couple of years, you might take a bath on the sale. If I lived in the north with a short boating season, I don't know if I'd repower with new. That's a lotta money to be setting under a tarp part of the year. Maybe a good topic might be "How many hours did you boat this year". Is the number more or less than last year?
There's no doubt, Etec, Optis, Verados (supercharged) and four strokes are the way to go, if you're looking for modern technology and economy.
One thing I don't think anybody mentioned, when repowering with a new motor, you might have spent double what your boat is worth. If you sell in a couple of years, you might take a bath on the sale. If I lived in the north with a short boating season, I don't know if I'd repower with new. That's a lotta money to be setting under a tarp part of the year. Maybe a good topic might be "How many hours did you boat this year". Is the number more or less than last year?
There's no doubt, Etec, Optis, Verados (supercharged) and four strokes are the way to go, if you're looking for modern technology and economy.
macojoe
Administrator
I am a north guy, I have bought my share of used motors, and you are right, it seems like a waste to cover the thing for 7 months of the year!! But I am tired of every year getting broke down right in the middle of the season!!
If it was me,I would be Yamaha, Etec, Suzy, Mercury is no were on my list!!
If it was me,I would be Yamaha, Etec, Suzy, Mercury is no were on my list!!
I've thought of those things as well...~$10k for a new motor and the amount of time I spend out in the water...if I ever sell the boat I would basically take a loss. I want reliability and economy and not have to worry about breaking down or running low on fuel. I went fishing recently and covered about 80 miles. Reading the posts, I'm suppose to have a 60gal tank. At the end of my trip my fuel gauge read about 1/4 tank. My gauge may not be accurate, but that would put me at about 1.7 miles to the gallon. 
80 miles is not a lot of range based on the location of fishing spots here.
Other things I've thought about are:
o Do I just sell the boat and buy another that has a nice motor?
o I like my V20 CC. I got an aluminum trailer for it, put a T-top on it and made a
custom bait tank.
o If I buy another boat, then who knows about the condition of the motor. With a new
motor I basically know.
o I have some buddies that have a 24' cuddy with a new 250 e-tec. I do go fishing
a lot with them on their boat so they said I don't really need my boat(I would buy
in on their boat).
I don't know....
80 miles is not a lot of range based on the location of fishing spots here.Other things I've thought about are:
o Do I just sell the boat and buy another that has a nice motor?
o I like my V20 CC. I got an aluminum trailer for it, put a T-top on it and made a
custom bait tank.
o If I buy another boat, then who knows about the condition of the motor. With a new
motor I basically know.
o I have some buddies that have a 24' cuddy with a new 250 e-tec. I do go fishing
a lot with them on their boat so they said I don't really need my boat(I would buy
in on their boat).
I don't know....
reelapeelin
God
Time to beat feet around town...I gotta think there's a dealer in that size market who'll work w/you...even if you could buy from Ed's, you're still gonna have to take it somewhere for service eventually...they are obligated to work on 'em no matter where you got it, but you'll probably be put in the back of the line if you got it from somebody else...can't really blame 'em...
macojoe
Administrator
If the boat you have is in good shape and you like then keep it!!
You never know what you are going to get when you start looking And motors go thru a lot of stuff weather they are 20 years old or 1 year old!!
I have a 84 Sea Ox now, I am in love with it and believe it will be the last boat I will ever own!!
I don't have the cash right now so I have added used power to it, but I hope at some point I will add a brand new motor to it!!
Much better then buying new package, for a V20 all new I bet you looking at $30K at least!!
You never know what you are going to get when you start looking And motors go thru a lot of stuff weather they are 20 years old or 1 year old!!
I have a 84 Sea Ox now, I am in love with it and believe it will be the last boat I will ever own!!
I don't have the cash right now so I have added used power to it, but I hope at some point I will add a brand new motor to it!!
Much better then buying new package, for a V20 all new I bet you looking at $30K at least!!
THEFERMANATOR
God
YAMAHA's are pretty proven, but they have NEVER impressed me with there power. There new 4 strokes are quiet though, everytime I go out with my buddy I keep telling him the engine has stalled. SUZUKI's are a good engine as well, but not the greatest dealer support network. BRP is REALLY pushing the ETEC as the greatest thing, but it is still the same basic technology that the FICHT was back in 98. If your after ULTIMATE milage in the 150-175HP range, then I would suggest the OPTIMAX as the #1 canidate. Tests have proven that the 150 OPTI is pretty much KING of economy on fuel and oil(excluding the ETEC set up for XD100). The YAMAHA 150 4 stroke would be a good match I would think as well as the 150 HONDA.
The MAIN question with buying new is warranty and a GOOD dealer. Remember that these new engines can be REALLY good and reliable, but on a direct injected engine a couple of injectors or an EMM will cost almost as much as the engine is worth. Look around and see how many OPTI's you find needing air pumps and injectors for sale because those parts cost more than they can buy a replcement for. Technology is great, but it is a killer as well. You can roll the dice and find a late model used HPDI YAMAHA, OPTIMAX or FICHT and hope for the best. Me personally if you don't use the boat ALOT, then just get a reliable old 2 stroke. For what you save on gas with a new engine, you will spend on the initial cost.
The V4 JOHNNY-RUDES are pretty D@MN reliable and powerful, as well as not being horrible on gas. The 2.0L and 2.4L MERCS can be had for decent money and are decent on fuel as well as a LARGE availability of interchangeable parts. The old tried and true 150 YAMAHA 2 stroke is tough to beat for reliability and durability, and is one of the better 2 strokes on fuel.
Decide what you want to spend, and go from there. All of the new engines are good, just make sure to get a GOOD warranty if you decide to go new. Your current figure of 1.7 MPG isn't that far off from some of the better numbers here as 2 MPG is regarded pretty good economy for a V-20 with a 2 stroke. You may even be able to improve your current set-up to 2 MPG by getting a better designed prop. You would be SHOCKED to see how much extra fuel one nick on your prop will make you use.
ON EDIT: I see you currently have a 150 MERC, so you should have a 2.0L. That is actually a pretty fuel miserly old school 2 stroke. A little time with boat set-up and propping may make a BIG difference in your economy and performance. I have a 150 MERC on a bass boat and it only used 4 GPH at cruise, even on a V-20 I would expect it to stay around 10 or so fopr fuel burn at cruise.
The MAIN question with buying new is warranty and a GOOD dealer. Remember that these new engines can be REALLY good and reliable, but on a direct injected engine a couple of injectors or an EMM will cost almost as much as the engine is worth. Look around and see how many OPTI's you find needing air pumps and injectors for sale because those parts cost more than they can buy a replcement for. Technology is great, but it is a killer as well. You can roll the dice and find a late model used HPDI YAMAHA, OPTIMAX or FICHT and hope for the best. Me personally if you don't use the boat ALOT, then just get a reliable old 2 stroke. For what you save on gas with a new engine, you will spend on the initial cost.
The V4 JOHNNY-RUDES are pretty D@MN reliable and powerful, as well as not being horrible on gas. The 2.0L and 2.4L MERCS can be had for decent money and are decent on fuel as well as a LARGE availability of interchangeable parts. The old tried and true 150 YAMAHA 2 stroke is tough to beat for reliability and durability, and is one of the better 2 strokes on fuel.
Decide what you want to spend, and go from there. All of the new engines are good, just make sure to get a GOOD warranty if you decide to go new. Your current figure of 1.7 MPG isn't that far off from some of the better numbers here as 2 MPG is regarded pretty good economy for a V-20 with a 2 stroke. You may even be able to improve your current set-up to 2 MPG by getting a better designed prop. You would be SHOCKED to see how much extra fuel one nick on your prop will make you use.
ON EDIT: I see you currently have a 150 MERC, so you should have a 2.0L. That is actually a pretty fuel miserly old school 2 stroke. A little time with boat set-up and propping may make a BIG difference in your economy and performance. I have a 150 MERC on a bass boat and it only used 4 GPH at cruise, even on a V-20 I would expect it to stay around 10 or so fopr fuel burn at cruise.
cterrebonne
God
i bought my wife an acura, yes, i am a hipocrite.
, but i have an american truck and outboard, that should make up for it a little bit.
THEFERMANATOR
God
My older JEEPS were all CANADIAN parts, even assembled there. My newer ones were all pretty much MEXICO though, and I believe my DAKOTA was built there as well. My SUBURBAN was a MICHIGAN build though.
Anyone have an opinion about the Suzuki 175? Overkill for a V20 CC? It's ~60lbs heavier than the DF 140 and I don't know how much more fuel it would use. There's a '07 Suzuki DF 175 local that can probably be bought for $8k with props and controls. I don't think they are a suzuki dealer and that's why they mentioned 3yr warranty. Regarding the current 6yr warrant being offered, they said it can be 6yrs depending on condition. I assuming that would be if a suzuki dealership would install it.