Water coming out of carb

[Larryrsf]

Well, when becoming an owner of a vintage boat, you wind up taking on a tremendous amount of the work yourself. I purchased a 1977 V20 Cuddy, with a 1971 Mercury 1350 outboard about two weeks ago. There's a thread here that I started under "Repairs" that I will wind up doing myself.

Just to get the motor to where I'm comfortable, I'll be rebuilding the water pump, fuel pumps and carbs. Doing a full tune-up, new plug wires and distributer parts, replace any bad wiring and all the seals (and possibly bearings) in the lower unit. Then, I'll be rebuilding the controls and replacing the wiring.
All this for a boat that was in the water last year and fished. Some here may think its a bit of overkill, but I've seen some things in the way that the boat was maintained (or not) that make me scratch my head. I prefer to minimize some of the problems that I may have inherited.

To take a vessel that has "sat in a field for 14 years" and "add carb cleaner to the fuel and go" takes a level of confidence in the PO that I don't possess. Great boating to you!

Well, remember that I hired a certified outboard mechanic to come here and start the engine and completely check it out, do a formal evaluation. He recorded the cylinder pressures, tilt pump output, generator output, and much else. The numbers indicated a recent overhaul of the powerhead before it was stored all those years. It had NEW motor compression. It idled slightly rough, hence his advice to have the carbs rebuilt at the end of the season and to add fuel conditioner in the mean time, just run it a few dozen+ hours. He rebuilt the water pump and serviced the lower unit.

He checked the controls and steering and found them sound. I replaced the starter switch because the original key had been misplaced. When inside the remote unit I found it clean and sound mechanically. I rewired the boat almost completely. I added a new fuse panel and ran wires from the new fuel level senders to the dashboard. I added a second battery and a battery selector switch.

And I removed and flushed out the two saddle fuel tanks. I replaced all the fuel hose and the tank selector valve. I added a big water separator/filter and a new squeeze bulb and connector.

Then he and I replaced ALL the rubber fuel hoses between carbs and fuel pump. We replaced every connector and every hose clamp tie.

So it wasn't just blind trust when I decided to put it in a Marina for the Summer. I really believe it will run well. It does seem to be idling better each time I take it out.

He said an interesting thing about that old engine, "2-cycle engines are amazing, they will run almost regardless of anything!" And a 6-cylinder engine can bring you in when several cylinders drop out.

I also have BOATUS insurance. Free tow if I get stuck out there on the harbor somewhere!

And now I have my trailer back, and he had to essentially keep the open steel channel and replace everything else! You name a trailer part and mine is new, not just new, but the best heavy-duty option. New longer tongue, new springs, new axles, new fenders, new bearings and one new hub because the broken lug bolt couldn't be removed. New hitch, new jack on a swivel wheel, new winch, new safety chains, new safety chain to the boat eye, new bunks, new rollers, new led lights that can be submerged without concern. And of course the whole thing painted with the best epoxy paint baked on. Not galvanized, but infinitely better than most other steel trailers, especially the crap from Ensenada, ha. Total rebuild cost: $3000! But he said the trailer could be sold for $3500+ tomorrow morning-- It is "Henry Trailers" here in El Cajon, CA. He has the best reputation in the area by far. Not cheap, but super high quality. Resale value!

So now my trailer is worth more than boat and motor together!

I'll take some photos and try to throw them up for everyone to see.

Larry

 

[smokeonthewater]

Ya know Larry.... If you are gonna post without all the details it really isn't nice to dump all over someone when the reply to what the very little info you gave made it sound like.....

People are trying to help you and you are acting like they are idiots.

Just my .02

 

[Larryrsf]

Ya know Larry.... If you are gonna post without all the details it really isn't nice to dump all over someone when the reply to what the very little info you gave made it sound like.....

People are trying to help you and you are acting like they are idiots.

Just my .02

Wow! Please cite an example wherein a post of mine made someone feel like an idiot. That has never been my intention. In fact I avoid noticing the name of any poster so that my replies are NOT personal, never TO or about anyone but ONLY about the subject of the discussion. I joined this forum because I am a total newby to boats, boat trailers, and outboards. I want to learn from you guys-- and avoid making expensive mistakes.

Larry

 

[Destroyer]

Wow! Please cite an example wherein a post of mine made someone feel like an idiot. That has never been my intention. In fact I avoid noticing the name of any poster so that my replies are NOT personal, never TO or about anyone but ONLY about the subject of the discussion. I joined this forum because I am a total newby to boats, boat trailers, and outboards. I want to learn from you guys-- and avoid making expensive mistakes.

Larry

Larry, I think your hearts in the right place,.... really I do. But I can cite you several examples where people here have made suggestions and you have downgraded or ignored them all. Not saying you're wrong or right, since you know more about your boat, engine and trailer than anyone else here. Just saying that sometimes it appears that you're not so much looking for advice as you are looking for a justification about something you're doing or have already done.

An example would be Thefermanator telling you not to run your engine until you did several things. But you just ignored the advice, threw in a can of carb cleaner and away you went. Now you may not know it, but he and Spareparts are marine engine mechanics. They do this stuff for a living. Others of us are carpenters, welders, engineers, electricians, plumbers, etc, etc. Well, you get the idea. There is a wealth of knowledge here, possessed by some of the most intelligent and downright nicest people I've ever met. When they say jump, the only question you should be asking is how high. And further, if you don't understand something they say, they will try with all of their might to explain the why's and wherefore's of what they are saying until you do understand it. I think that's what Smoke is referring to more than anything.

Please understand, we like having you here. Everyone is welcome and you're no exception. But if you don't intend to follow the advice you're given..... don't ask for it.

 

[Larryrsf]

Larry, I think your hearts in the right place,.... really I do. But I can cite you several examples where people here have made suggestions and you have downgraded or ignored them all. Not saying you're wrong or right, since you know more about your boat, engine and trailer than anyone else here. Just saying that sometimes it appears that you're not so much looking for advice as you are looking for a justification about something you're doing or have already done.

An example would be Thefermanator telling you not to run your engine until you did several things. But you just ignored the advice, threw in a can of carb cleaner and away you went. Now you may not know it, but he and Spareparts are marine engine mechanics. They do this stuff for a living. Others of us are carpenters, welders, engineers, electricians, plumbers, etc, etc. Well, you get the idea. There is a wealth of knowledge here, possessed by some of the most intelligent and downright nicest people I've ever met. When they say jump, the only question you should be asking is how high. And further, if you don't understand something they say, they will try with all of their might to explain the why's and wherefore's of what they are saying until you do understand it. I think that's what Smoke is referring to more than anything.

Please understand, we like having you here. Everyone is welcome and you're no exception. But if you don't intend to follow the advice you're given..... don't ask for it.

Fellas, I told everyone that I asked my CERTIFIED marine mechanic whether I should take it down to the Marina and run it all Summer. I asked whether it is ready for that? And he said it is, reminding me that the carbs should be rebuilt after the season.

I read advice here that had I followed it would have curtailed using the boat this Summer! If I did what some suggested, I would have stopped everything and worked on the engine, or in my case, just waited until a marine mechanic had time to rebuild the carbs. This is July. I would still be waiting.

So I took a calculated risk, a gamble. So far my mechanic, the guy who started that engine and did the exhaustive formal evaluation of its condition, has been right. It runs better all the time. Several others have said "put some hours on it" is the basic cure for years of idleness. Make sure it stays cool with a rebuilt water pump (I did that) and slightly more oil in the gas, and the best fuel conditioner in the fuel. I am doing all of that-- while using the boat this Summer!

So I was obliged to ignore some of the advice I read here. I know it was well-intentioned, but it didn't fit my situation. The theoretical best course may not be the most practical and cost-effective course for an old boat--in June with the whole Summer ahead.

BTW, I am a retired nuclear engineer, age 73. I was engineering crew on several nuclear subs starting with the Nautilus before I finished my nuclear engineering degrees. So even though I may not be very bright, nobody thinks I am stupid. I have a complete shop, enough tools to overhaul a car or a boat engine. I had a metal lathe and a milling machine for a while. I have invented and built prototypes of several things including a baseball pitching machine and a golf swing trainer. 35 years ago I bought an old boat with an Evinrude 75HP outboard on it. I bought the shop manuals and overhauled it myself. It ran! So this is really not my first rodeo.

Larry

 

[smokeonthewater]

Yep that's right destroyer....

Larry NOBODY here said you were stupid but it's QUITE obvious (or a the very least appears so) that a feller that is asking how to handle problems with his outboard lacks experience working on one...

Just because you post details on one thread doesn't mean someone replying to another thread saw them.

BTW extra oil good additive and just running it is soooooo not the proper treatment for a neglected motor.... Sea foam and the like CAN go a long way to clean up a cruddy carb but all these additives and extra oil actually lessen the ratio of gasoline to air and as such CAN actually compound a lean condition.... Engines with multiple carbs are highly susceptible to burned pistons... One carb can be partially clogged and he others not... The engine can run about 90% perfect but one carb is lean at certain rpm's causing that cylinder to meltdown.

You may well have fully understood all this and decided the risk was worth it to you OR for all we knew you may have been making a terrible mistake from which maybe we could have saved you....

I ABSOLUTELY agree that you are welcome and appreciated here....

That said maybe a simple THANKS guys but I'm gonna........... would be better than multiple paragraphs of 'where the cow ate tha cabbage'

I'm 40 and have been slinging wrenches as a hobby literally since I was about 5. When I was about 7 and too little to pull the cord I fixed a carb problem on a chainsaw my gramps had struggled with for months... At the age of 12 I was given a '53 Evinrude 7.5 with a rod hanging out of the block.... Without any sort of manual or any help other than Dad driving me around I scrounged used parts and JB Weld'ed the block, rebiult the carb, and now nearly 30 years later the engine is still running strong and in regular use.... Those are just the beginning of my expeirence and I have wrenched on everything from dirt bikes to cars to semis to bulldozers n excavators BUT when the gurus here whisper a suggestion about marine engines I take it as law and don't doubt them for a second.

BTW my grandfather was part of pioneering nuclear military vessels and invented something or other they used on some of the first ones tho I don't remember what..... Small world.

 

[Destroyer]

WOW... Someone older than me.!!! I'm 70 Larry, and I thought that I had the title as the oldest here. Guess I'm in second place now.

And for the record, some of my qualifications are that I also have a South Bend Lathe, and a J head Bridgeport miller, a welder and more tools that I'll ever really need. Oh, and I'm a 1st class machinist, a licensed HVAC mechanic, and a mechanical engineer. I retired from the electric company that brought you 3 mile Island (Although that was not one of my responsibilities [thank God]). My point is I too have been a wrench turner since I was a child. I pulled my first tranny (out of a 53 Chevy) when I was 13, and I haven't looked back since. But when Ferm told me to clean the carbs on my 91 Johnson looper, and Spare told me to change the reeds on it, I did both.. and in the process found that the carbs were melted from a fire and leaking raw gas. Took me almost 3 weeks to get the parts and do the work myself, but that engine is still purring today. Yes, I lost 3 weeks, but possibly saved my life by not having a fire while I was out on the ocean.
So you see, you're not unique, and point of fact, most of these problems pop up around this time of year... because that's when we use our boats. Really, we're just trying to save you time and money... and yes, possibly your life. Red sky's at night.....I'm done.

PS. Oh, and I'm fairly certain that both Spare and Ferm ARE certified also.

 

[Larryrsf]

WOW... Someone older than me.!!! I'm 70 Larry, and I thought that I had the title as the oldest here. Guess I'm in second place now.

And for the record, some of my qualifications are that I also have a South Bend Lathe, and a J head Bridgeport miller, a welder and more tools that I'll ever really need. Oh, and I'm a 1st class machinist, a licensed HVAC mechanic, and a mechanical engineer. I retired from the electric company that brought you 3 mile Island (Although that was not one of my responsibilities [thank God]). My point is I too have been a wrench turner since I was a child. I pulled my first tranny (out of a 53 Chevy) when I was 13, and I haven't looked back since. But when Ferm told me to clean the carbs on my 91 Johnson looper, and Spare told me to change the reeds on it, I did both.. and in the process found that the carbs were melted from a fire and leaking raw gas. Took me almost 3 weeks to get the parts and do the work myself, but that engine is still purring today. Yes, I lost 3 weeks, but possibly saved my life by not having a fire while I was out on the ocean.
So you see, you're not unique, and point of fact, most of these problems pop up around this time of year... because that's when we use our boats. Really, we're just trying to save you time and money... and yes, possibly your life. Red sky's at night.....I'm done.

PS. Oh, and I'm fairly certain that both Spare and Ferm ARE certified also.

Thanks. Of course my argument isn't that your and other advise was not correct and useful, but that what some suggested didn't factor in the reality of my boat and this time of year in San Diego. Fact, If I didn't get my boat off that trailer, I would not have been able to rebuild that trailer this Summer. Fact, with no trailer, I remained unable to move the boat out of the water. Fact, If I didn't get my boat in the water and into a slip, most likely I would not have been able to use it this Summer. So I had to risk that the engine was ready to run several dozen hours this Summer. If it blew up, it blew up. I had $100 in boat, engine, and trailer and I have both a fire extinguisher and towing insurance. I have the boat insured for $12k. Is it worth that?

Hence during these early discussions I was obliged to ignore what was undoubtedly prudent advise under ideal circumstances. I was working under far from ideal circumstances. Sorry to hurt anyone's feelings.

BTW, I was an NRC Inspector. Back in 1982, I was sent to 3-Mile Island after the incident. I was one of inspectors who interviewed those operators to learn what actually happened. Then I factored that into my operator examinations at other nuclear power plants over the next 2 years I was in the NRC. We learned how to ensure that didn't happen again!

Larry

 

[Larryrsf]

Now I am debating whether to take the boat out of the water and try to clean the bottom. Really, what additional damage will be done by more weeks of marine growth on that fiberglass? I keep the engine tilted up and I intend to try to flush it with fresh water after each outing. And certainly the boat will be slower on the water as it drags all that stuff, but so what? The water in the Harbor here is nearly always too choppy to allow comfortable planing by small boats, much less higher speeds. The smartest speed seems to be about 15MPH and 2000 RPM. Even BIG wakes don't pound and scare me or my passengers.

And there are many places I haven't explored yet.

Does anyone really think there is a difference in marine growth damage to fiberglass between one and 4 months?

Larry

 

[spareparts]

don't know how the growth is where you are at, but down here, this time of year, you have to clean the bottom at least every two weeks or it won't even plane out, worse than that, running the boat with a dirty bottom can overload the engine, I've seen more than one engine failure from a dirty bottom. If you don't have bottom paint or at least a barrier coat, you're looking at blisters by now

 

[spoggy]

Well, remember that I hired a certified outboard mechanic to come here and start the engine and completely check it out, do a formal evaluation. He recorded the cylinder pressures, tilt pump output, generator output, and much else. The numbers indicated a recent overhaul of the powerhead before it was stored all those years. It had NEW motor compression. It idled slightly rough, hence his advice to have the carbs rebuilt at the end of the season and to add fuel conditioner in the mean time, just run it a few dozen+ hours. He rebuilt the water pump and serviced the lower unit.

He checked the controls and steering and found them sound. I replaced the starter switch because the original key had been misplaced. When inside the remote unit I found it clean and sound mechanically. I rewired the boat almost completely. I added a new fuse panel and ran wires from the new fuel level senders to the dashboard. I added a second battery and a battery selector switch.

And I removed and flushed out the two saddle fuel tanks. I replaced all the fuel hose and the tank selector valve. I added a big water separator/filter and a new squeeze bulb and connector.

Then he and I replaced ALL the rubber fuel hoses between carbs and fuel pump. We replaced every connector and every hose clamp tie.

So it wasn't just blind trust when I decided to put it in a Marina for the Summer. I really believe it will run well. It does seem to be idling better each time I take it out.

He said an interesting thing about that old engine, "2-cycle engines are amazing, they will run almost regardless of anything!" And a 6-cylinder engine can bring you in when several cylinders drop out.

I also have BOATUS insurance. Free tow if I get stuck out there on the harbor somewhere!

And now I have my trailer back, and he had to essentially keep the open steel channel and replace everything else! You name a trailer part and mine is new, not just new, but the best heavy-duty option. New longer tongue, new springs, new axles, new fenders, new bearings and one new hub because the broken lug bolt couldn't be removed. New hitch, new jack on a swivel wheel, new winch, new safety chains, new safety chain to the boat eye, new bunks, new rollers, new led lights that can be submerged without concern. And of course the whole thing painted with the best epoxy paint baked on. Not galvanized, but infinitely better than most other steel trailers, especially the crap from Ensenada, ha. Total rebuild cost: $3000! But he said the trailer could be sold for $3500+ tomorrow morning-- It is "Henry Trailers" here in El Cajon, CA. He has the best reputation in the area by far. Not cheap, but super high quality. Resale value!

So now my trailer is worth more than boat and motor together!

I'll take some photos and try to throw them up for everyone to see.

Larry

Well...it appears I've started some sort of s**tstorm here without meaning to. Larry, I had seen a couple of other posts by you here, and in none of them did I see the level of detail that you presented in your response here. I apologize for not having seen anything else and was just responding to your original post.

Having said that, I still believe a great many "issues" that crop up in vintage boats are best handled by the owner. At least for me, part of the fun of this is the ability to "do it myself". I have a pretty good working understanding of how these things are put together, and though not as practical as others, I stand by my ability to get through a "tough spot" while out on the lake if need be. I stand by my suggestion that you take the time to learn how to do some of these things yourself, especially in light of your discovery about mechanics, they're never around when you need them. You'll find that you'll be on the water more if some repairs can be picked up by you.

I think you'll also see that there's a ton of experience, capability levels and ages here that play into a pretty diverse and knowledgeable crowd. Myself, 20 years as a millwright doing machine installation and repair. I can read prints an twist wrenches with the best of them. I was sole owner of a boat maintenance business while in my 20's, did that for about 10 years. Delivered boats via water and was a licensed captain to 160 tons. Have done the entire Great Lakes system, St Lawrence, Welland canal, Soo Locks, Erie Canal, Hudson River, inter coastal from Maine to Florida, C&D bays, Chicago Ship, Mississippi, Gulf coast, Panama Canal, Pacific Central America and Baja all the way to San Francisco. I don't claim to know everything, that's why I'm here asking questions.

I apologize if I offended you, that wasn't my intent. I only responded to what I had read, and I have yet to figure out how to reply to information I'm not privy to.

Best of luck.